Andranik Mihranyan: “What is happening in Ukraine today is a postponed civil war”

Why the Russian Federation can only be a great power and how it preserves traditional values?

“Now we are creating a new Russian identity, overcoming all the abominations that wild capitalism has brought to our country with moral degradation, a humiliation in the international arena, and cringing before everyone and everything,” says Andranik Mihranyan, a well-known Russian political scientist, and historian. About why the war in Ukraine should have taken place back in the early 1990s, how the United States is digging its own grave, why even Zbigniew Brzezinski admitted that the Russian Federation is Europe, how the concept of patriotism has changed after the start of the special operation, and whether Russia Day should be canceled, he told in an interview with BUSINESS Online.

“What is happening in Ukraine today is a postponed civil war”.

— Andranik Movsesovich, in an interview with our newspaper three years ago, you said that the Day of Russia, established after the adoption of the Declaration on the Sovereignty of the RSFSR, is not a holiday, but a tragedy of the Russian Federation, as it led to the collapse of the USSR. Is it possible to say that the Declaration of Sovereignty was one of the reasons for what began on February 24, 2022?

- Of course, because the military conflict in Ukraine is the result of the collapse of the Soviet Union. What is happening in Ukraine today is a delayed civil war. It should have begun under more normal circumstances as early as 1991-1992, because such huge imperial entities as the Soviet Union never disintegrate quietly and peacefully.

But the fact is that the instigators of the collapse of the USSR turned out to be the leaders of the RSFSR, the largest republic. Small Russia went against big Russia. And since the blame for the collapse of the country lay on the conscience of the Russian leaders, they could not immediately start a war to preserve the unity of the state, and they themselves were the first to leave the country. And they had no moral or any other reason to protect the country, which they decided to fuck.

However, the essential things that appeared immediately after the collapse of the USSR did not disappear anywhere. As a result, we got what we got, but with a certain time lag.

In general, there are a lot of different crazy conclusions about today's Ukrainian conflict. Some idiots say that the war began because Vladimir Putin hates Ukraine, that the struggle is for Kiev as the mother of Russian cities, for the Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra, and so on and so forth. But that's not the point at all.

Everything that is happening today is the inevitable result of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Back in 1948, George Kennan wrote that if the USSR collapsed, then no sane Soviet leader would ever accept or recognize the formation of an independent Ukrainian state, because it would become an existential threat to Russia.

This was said by Kennan, the greatest strategic thinker of the 20th century, according to whose templates the Soviet Union collapsed, since he was the author of the policy of containment. His recommendations formed the basis of 50 years of US foreign policy. The same great man predicted in 1997 that NATO's move to the East would be a war with Russia. He said this when he was already 94 years old. And he died in 2005 at the age of 101.

About Ukraine, Kennan also said that the most acceptable option is to keep it in some kind of federal connection with Russia within the framework of a single state. In another case, any Russian leader will destroy independent Ukraine, because Kiev will pose a threat to Moscow, since all Russian enemies will use it.

Kennan understood the essence of the “Ukrainian issue” for Russia earlier than others and predicted what Zbigniew Brzezinski and everyone else said later. And he turned out to be right. What, in fact, have our Western "friends" been doing in Ukraine for the last 15-20 years? They tried to use it to destroy and eliminate Russia.

- So, Putin didn't have a choice last February?

- Putin has nothing to do with it at all. George Kennan said back in 1948, four years before Putin was born, that no reasonable, sane Russian leader would allow an independent Ukraine. Ukraine became independent because of the debility of the Russian leadership at that time. But then sane leaders came to Russia, and they decided that this was wrong, because independent Ukraine would be constantly used to destroy the Russian Federation.

“The fate of world geopolitics is being decided in the Ukrainian conflict, who will be the global leader”

- And how do you assess the processes that have been taking place in Russia and the world since the start of the special military operation (SMO)?

- Now there is a global confrontation between the West and Russia, because the Russian Federation has decided to be a sovereign state. America is not ready for this. Washington believes that there should not be a single independent state, otherwise, there will be no American domination in this world.

Back in 2014, I wrote that the fate of world politics is being decided in Ukraine. And today it is not Ukraine and Russia that are fighting each other. In the Ukrainian conflict, the fate of world geopolitics is being decided, who will be the global leader, who will dominate, and who will be in a subordinate state. The question is whether the Americans will be able to build all the countries in such a way that they will obediently follow the instructions from Washington in absolute obedience.

And since the world is changing a lot today and other strong players are emerging (China is also threatening the US leadership), the Americans understand that if Russia and China unite, then America will be killed. Therefore, the United States decided to first deal with the Russian Federation so that it would not interfere with them, and then, as Graham Allison (American political scientist and analyst of American national security policy - ed.) said in his work The Thucydides Trap, in a decisive battle to defeat China.

- After the start of the SMO, many representatives of the patriotic camp note with satisfaction that Russia willy-nilly turns away from the West, which is good, since before we were too dependent on it.

- “It is not us who turn away from the West, but them constantly putting pressure on Russia through the promotion of NATO and other structures, arranging financial strangulation for us, and so on. And we are just defending ourselves, and this has been happening for the last 20 years.

We ourselves do not turn away from the West. And the West is generally not united. In contrast to the dominant trends in the West, there are other trends that are much closer to Russia than the Western ones. Today, a conflict is unfolding between the traditional and non-traditional West, between the conservative idea of life, society, culture, family, children, and what the left-wing radicals, the LGBT community, and many other similar movements are trying to impose.

The same contradictions underlay the confrontation between Westerners and Slavophiles. These two currents proceeded from two European philosophical concepts. Slavophiles were romantics who hated and did not accept capitalism, as it destroys traditional foundations. And the same thing is happening today.

- In our society, there are also discussions that Russia should have turned to the East a long time ago. But are they waiting for us there?

- Russia is being forced to turn to the East. When the West tries to destroy us, wants to strangle us financially, exerts tremendous pressure, it pushes us into the arms of China. Western analysts have warned about this a million times. They said that the Russian Federation would be forced to do this in order to save itself.

Today, Americans are digging their own graves with their own hands, because the Russian-Chinese alliance will be much stronger than the United States and it will become a harbinger of the ruin of both America and Europe. This is absolutely inevitable.

“Today, Russia stands in the way of the United States in a decisive battle with China for world domination”

- But while Russia is actually alone on the Ukrainian front, it does not have such support as Ukraine, which is assisted by the entire collective West.

— And what is the collective West? This collective West is being raped by the Americans. They destroyed the Nord Streams, laid the German economy on its side, and are destroying the FRG as a subject of world politics. This is how they act both with France and with other European countries, creating economic problems for them.

Europe lies at the feet of the United States. There is no collective West as such. There is a fear of vassals against a patron who rapes them and tries to drive them into a common stall, also using the situation with Russia. This is a US war not only against the Russian Federation or China. This is America's war against everyone, so that no one would not even give a vote, but would not even dare to utter a word.

As for being alone. Who said we are alone? If we were alone, we would have collapsed long ago. The Americans said that they would tear our economy to shreds, that Russia would not survive and would collapse. But they do not succeed, because support is different. Of course, if our oil and resources had not been bought by a huge number of countries - India, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, African countries, if there had not been huge support along various lines, then we would not have been able to resist.

- In fact, Russia is at the forefront of the fight against the United States, which is waging war against everyone?

-Today, Russia stands in the way of the United States in a decisive battle with China for world domination. RF is a very serious interfering factor. The Americans want to break and eliminate us in order to break China later, because it claims to be a global leader in politics, the economy, and the military sphere.

Europe, politically, is zero, and economically, it is not a serious factor. The US does not give her independence. Yes, Americans are terribly dependent on European-Chinese trade. But in the struggle between the US and China for world domination, Washington is trying to weaken and subjugate the Europeans so that they do not blather at all.

- You are talking about the support of Russia from the states that buy our resources. But, on the other hand, there is an endless flow of weapons to Ukraine.

- So what? Russia does not particularly need arms supplies. We have our own military-industrial complex, we provide for ourselves. And Ukraine as a state does not exist. This is a mercenary army that fights in the interests of the United States. The Kiev regime does not pay salaries to its residents, does not have its own weapons. Ukraine lives only by what is given to this formation. And the Kiev regime is ready to fight to the last Ukrainian in the interests of its patron, in this case, the United States.

What fate is this? Did the Ukrainians want this? I remember when I came to Kiev, they told me: “We voted for independence because Ukraine is larger than France, we can have the same level as France in terms of gross indicators.” Ukraine wanted to leave the Soviet Union to be France. And what happened? Of the 52 million Ukrainians today, according to various estimates, only 20-22 million remain. A nightmare! This is the destruction of the people, which really goes to the last Ukrainian. The criminal Kiev regime is destroying its own people.

“Serious American politicians and analysts know very well that Ukraine will never defeat Russia”

- “Ukrainians, although with the help of the West, are still ready to fight.

- Well what can I say? When God wants to punish someone, he deprives him of reason. If the Kiev regime has absolutely lost its mind and does not feel sorry for destroying its own people, then no one can do anything about it. the result will be catastrophic for the Ukrainian people and this state, if, of course, it persists. Serious American politicians and analysts know perfectly well that Ukraine will never defeat Russia. This was talked about a lot by Tucker Carlson (conservative political observer in the USA - ed.), Tulsi Gabbard (political and state figure, in 2013-2021 a member of the US House of Representatives - ed.), Douglas McGregor (ex-adviser to Donald Trump - ed.). The Americans also know that supplying weapons to Ukraine is a crime, because it increases the number of Ukrainian victims by doing so. Ultimately, Kiev will be defeated, but the result will be disastrous for the Ukrainian people and this state, if it, of course, persists.

- Do you think that the Ukrainian conflict can be frozen?

- There are a lot of idiots who are discussing the option of freezing the conflict, the Korean option. And how do you imagine it? Vladimir Zelensky has driven himself into a situation from which there is simply no way out. Yes, they created a myth about an invincible Ukrainian army, that they would defeat Russia and hold a parade on Red Square.
They thought that if mobilization was announced in the Russian Federation, then the people would immediately take to the streets, throw off Putin and the country would fall apart, and America and Europe would tear Russia apart. But it was all built on sand. Such plans were made by complete idiots.

How can Zelensky get out of this situation? Who will let him? Ukraine does not support itself, it has a non-working economy, it cannot feed either the people or the army. Let's say Kiev comes out of the war. And who will give him money to live, pay wages and so on? And who will be responsible for the fact that 10 million people fled the country, that so many people were killed? Now, during the military hysteria, everything can be attributed to the fact that they are fighting for their independence, sovereignty. You can say a lot of things, and then you have to answer.

And how can the West get out of the situation? The same completely crazy Joe Biden said that we need to achieve a strategic victory over Russia, that we need to overthrow the Putin regime and all that nonsense. And now how are these people supposed to win everything back? Who will be responsible for all this?

And the American society will very seriously demand answers for hundreds of billions of dollars of aid to Ukraine, for the supply of weapons, and for the escalation of the war, and for the threat of nuclear strikes. Who will be responsible for this? These are serious questions. But politicians sometimes drive themselves into situations from which they have no decent way out.

On the other hand, they must be crushed so that they do not even have thoughts about dignity. Then they will have to admit that they miscalculated. They thought to overcome and capture Russia, to hold a parade in Moscow, but it did not work out. What to do? Sorry. But who will answer for hundreds of thousands of victims, for millions of refugees? When they talk about peace, about some kind of negotiation, these questions do not seem to exist. And they are very important, and they must be raised.

- And Ukraine as a state will be preserved, in your opinion?

- I think it's unlikely. Despite failures and miscalculations on our part, a part of Novorossiya has already formed. With a successful combination of circumstances (and I think that it will be so), it will come to the formation of the entire Novorossiya.

Back in 2014, against the backdrop of the Crimean events, I wrote that Odessa, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk are waiting for the Russian army to come, that Novorossiya will be created, which will become part of Russia. I think it will be realized in one form or another.

As for Kiev itself and the western regions, the devil only knows. I once said that most of Ukraine should be called Kievan Rus and included in the tripartite composition with Russia and Belarus. And give Galicia to the Poles so that they squabble among themselves, because they hate each other so much that they should be given the opportunity to get enough of this hatred.

“When Russia becomes stronger economically and militarily-politically, the post-Soviet countries themselves will pull up to Moscow”

-How do you assess Russia's relations with other post-Soviet republics, which have also been difficult over the past 30 years?

- Russia's relations with the post-Soviet republics are very difficult. This is true. Of course, much is connected with the fact that our "friends" and "partners" worked in the post-Soviet space. There is nothing surprising in the fact that they set up the former Soviet republics against the Russian Federation. For example, Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote in 1993 that it is necessary to create geopolitical pluralism in the post-Soviet space. And then, within the framework of this pluralism, they stimulated the creation of the GUUAM organization, which included Georgia, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan and Moldova. And after Uzbekistan left it, this structure became known as GUAM. This organization was created in opposition to Russia in order to prevent neither economic reintegration, cultural consolidation, nor the preservation of the linguistic community of the former Soviet republics.

The fight then was unequal. The Soviet Union collapsed. Russia has weakened. All our so-called partners tried to grab everything that was wrong. But when the Russian Federation becomes stronger economically and militarily-politically, the post-Soviet countries themselves will catch up with Moscow, because in this world the weak always join the strong. The same Baltic States at first shouted that they wanted freedom and did not want Soviet dictatorship, but as soon as the Balts gained independence, they immediately carried their sovereignty to Brussels and Washington. They needed a new owner, who, as it seemed to them, was richer and better.

This principle of behavior is common both in people and in states. Everyone thinks about how best to settle down, so that there are more benefits and fewer responsibilities. And after this special operation, when Russia, I hope, wins, a lot will change. As I said, today there is not just a war in Ukraine. Both Biden and many admit that this is a war between the West and the Russian Federation and the winner takes all. The price of both defeats and victories is too high, because after the war the geopolitical situation in the world will seriously change. And the behavior of the post-Soviet republics will also depend on it, which will begin to seriously scratch their turnips and think about what to do.

- So now they are in a state of waiting and watching?

- The weak are always in a state of expectation in order not to get under the feet of the strong, not to blather too much, and not to get hit on the head. But sometimes they do both. As did, for example, the Georgians in 2008. And as a result, we got what we got. Fortunately for the Ossetians and Abkhazians, and unfortunately for the Georgians themselves, because they had a crazy president, Mikheil Saakashvili.

Today, Ukraine has the same deranged clown who, based on his own idiotic ideas, believed that he could be a real president. He played the president in a movie and now he thinks that his dreams have come true and he needs to play to the end. But I think that Zelensky is destined for an inglorious end, like Nero.

- Since the beginning of the special operation, there have been many arguments that it will become one of the stages in the process of the revival of the USSR in one form or another. Is it possible?

- Illiterate people both here and in the West talk about it. How can the USSR be revived today? It was created on the basis of Marxist ideology and the dominance of the Communist Party. If the CPSU, the Marxist ideology and the totalitarian regime are reborn in our country, then we can say that the USSR is also reviving. But today in Russia it is impossible.

- And if on some other grounds, backing it up, for example, with the denunciation of the Belovezhskaya Accords, which is also periodically discussed?

- Actually, in 1996 the State Duma tried to denounce the Belovezhskaya Accords. Formally, she even denounced them. And Yeltsin in 1996, on the eve of his elections, was ready to close the State Duma and cancel the elections. Neither the one, nor the other, nor the third one turned out.

In order to denounce the Belovezhskaya Accords and revive the Soviet Union, a completely different regime and other resources are needed - both human, and military, and all the rest. To restore the USSR, an ideology is needed that can attract former Soviet republics that feel in a completely different world and different conditions today. The national elites of the post-Soviet space are not eager to come under the arm of the Russian "tsar". This can be achieved, of course, but only with fire and sword, as the Bolsheviks did. But this will lead to great sacrifices, blood, and tremendous resources will be needed. What for? Such thoughts walk only in the sick imagination of some idiots in the West, here, with us.

“We should not be ashamed of the fact that Russia is Europe and rush somewhere to the East. We can never become Hindus or Chinese."

- And how would you define the ideological formula of Russia, in which 190 ethnic groups live? What values unite different nations?

- We have several things in common. First of all, we are supporters of traditional, conservative values. This is the homeland, family, religion, traditions of different peoples. These are eternal values that are preached by Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Buddhists, and ethnic groups professing other religions. We are united by tolerance and respect for the diversity of people's lives in different regions of Russia. And, of course, we are united by the idea that we live in one country with uniform laws, cultural and socio-cultural ideas.

Now many people are screaming that we need an ideology. But ideology is not created just like that, at will. For its formation, social and political forces are needed. I think that there is no need to create an ideology today.

And I would like to add a very important thing. It is not we who have left the West. It is the West that has gone away from itself. Russia today is a receptacle and custodian of traditional European values and European culture. We are the real heirs and custodians of those values that are being destroyed today both in Europe and in the USA.

By the way, they have alternative movements that are much closer to us than to the forces that dominate in these countries. And they are our natural allies.

And all these arguments about the fact that Russia has a special path, about Eurasianism, a turn to the East, are complete nonsense. Even Zbigniew Brzezinski, in his book Strategic Vision, writes that when you come to Vladivostok, you feel like you are in Europe. Architecture, lifestyle, the way people dress, how they behave, and so on. Therefore, we should not be ashamed of the fact that Russia is Europe and rush somewhere to the East. We can never become Hindu or Chinese. We are Europeans.
Centuries-old assimilation of European culture and its achievements has led to the highest results of Russia in literature, music, painting, and many other areas. Russian culture in every sense is a colossal, grandiose, irreplaceable part of European culture. And what? Are we going to refuse it because in Europe homosexuals marry each other and transgender people walk the streets? But this is complete nonsense.

- But in Europe, they are actively canceling Russian culture.

- “They are not going anywhere from Russian culture. It is impossible to cancel it. You know, once we were driving in America, my wife turned on the radio, and the music of either Rachmaninoff or Tchaikovsky began to play. The wife says: “Well, where will they go without Russian music?” And I will tell you that this is true. No one can cancel Tolstoy with Dostoevsky, Chekhov, Russian music, or painting. This is complete nonsense.

- Can Russia offer the world the very real European values that it now keeps?

- Russia should not offer anyone any value. The Russian Federation should show by its example that it is more comfortable and correct to live this way. But Russia itself needs to live in accordance with traditional ideas and values. I think that is how the country lives now. Previously, in some areas of our culture, absolutely unacceptable and disgusting samples also tried to manifest themselves, which claimed to become mainstream.
But as a result of recent events, extravagant manifestations have been excluded from our lives. And thank God we got rid of them. We don't need them at all. I think that over time they will be freed both in the USA and in Europe.

“We are quite capable of governing our country, restoring our subjectivity in world politics, and taking a worthy place”

- What do you think, has the concept of patriotism changed in Russia in connection with the SMO? How do people perceive it today? Does it reflect the "showdown" in the patriotic camp?

- I think that the special operation and the information and propaganda machine, although it is hard to unfold, still form people's sense of belonging to a single country, that the Russian Federation is really in danger and each person should take some part in order to counteract this. This is something that has not been in Russia for a long time since capitalism began in our country after the collapse of the USSR.

And at the beginning of capitalism, people have only one god - mammon. It's gold and money. Nothing else matters. We had wild capitalism: robberies, debauchery of the wealthy class, and so on. Our capitalists have destroyed any moral ideas about what society should be like and how one should love the Motherland.

For many people from the so-called elite, Russia was a country where they earned money and enjoyed life in other states. Therefore, there was a monstrous attitude towards the Russian Federation. They called her Rashka, a scoop, and other insults were voiced.

And today a new Russian identity is being formed. These things usually happen during times of crisis. And we are now going through a really very serious crisis period. Where to go? I want to emphasize again. We are not opposed to Ukraine. We are confronting the entire West under the leadership of the United States. America wants to break and subdue Russia. There is a question about the existence of our country as an independent state. We saw how disgustingly we were humiliated after 1990, and we ran with outstretched hands and asked for money from the IMF. Nobody took us seriously back then. We were written off as a factor in world politics.

- And then everyone was surprised at Putin's Munich speech.

- Well, of course. I had an article in Rossiyskaya Gazeta that I wrote after the Munich speech. It was called “Putin committed a mortal sin in Munich. He told the truth." Why mortal sin? Because everyone who listened to it really didn't like it.

And now we are creating a new Russian identity, overcoming all the abominations that wild capitalism has brought to our country with moral degradation, a humiliation in the international arena, and cringing before everyone and everything. We felt and said publicly that we were not capable of anything, let them come and rule us. Then we will be fine.

And in the end, it turned out that it was not. It turned out that we just need sane leaders and an understanding of the goal, where to move. Then we will be fully able to govern our country, restore our subjectivity in world politics and take a worthy place. Russia can only be a great power. Or she will not exist at all. This is the only way for the Russian Federation. Such is our destiny.

“Even if no one remembers why the Day of Russia was established, it’s not scary”

- And if we return to the Day of Russia, isn't it time for us to cancel this holiday, since it symbolizes a tragedy?

- I don't think so. Holidays cannot be canceled. On the contrary, there should be a lot of them. The Russian people love holidays, and it doesn't matter for what reason. If only there was a free day and you could sit, drink, eat, and chat with family and friends. Of course, it's good when the holidays are meaningful. Although there are enough senseless holidays. But, even if no one remembers, in connection with which the Day of Russia was established, it’s not scary.

They made the holiday of National Unity Day on November 4 on the occasion of the expulsion of the Poles from Russia. And who remembers this and who considers it a real holiday?

- But still, in honor of the expulsion of the Poles, a monument to Kuzma Minin and Dmitry Pozharsky stands on Red Square.

- And next to Minin and Pozharsky on Red Square lies Vladimir Ilyich and the Kremlin stars are burning. And we drink and walk not only on November 4, but also on November 7, because this date is also a page from the history of our country and we cannot forget it, although the holiday was formally canceled.

- Or maybe instead of June 12, we should look for another date for a holiday in honor of Russian statehood?

- You don't have to do that. Why do this when the state is over a thousand years old? Of course, one can start, for example, from the period of Prince Vladimir, who baptized Rus'. But he is still remembered.

In general, Russia is not the United States, where public holidays are associated with specific people. For example, Thomas Jefferson (third US President - ed.) wrote the "Declaration of Independence of the United States" in 1776, and it became America's founding document along with the Constitution, which was written 11 years later by James Madison (fourth US President - ed.)

And Russia claims the continuity of its centuries-old history. By the way, many people did not like it when Putin returned the music from the USSR anthem to the Russian anthem. And I was for it, because after the collapse of the USSR, many people felt like strangers in this country, they could not understand who they were, what happened to them. As a result, the Russian anthem, despite the fact that the words have changed, turned out to be such that it retains historical continuity.

By the way, the Germans did not abandon their anthem, although Nazi Germany also used it. Historical continuity is very important. Especially if we are talking about the continuous 1000-year history of our state. Therefore, there should be many holidays in Russia.

Olga Vandysheva